Category: the Rant Board
Okay, seriously. This pisses me off. I don't know if anyone else has experienced this, but here goes. Have you ever asked someone if they'd like a drink of water, or something to eat, and they say no, but then get up and get something anyway? Maybe I'm not getting the spirit of this right, but it really rustrates me. What, o you think just because we can't see that we can't pour? or that we have some rare form of ciphilitic virus that spreads by contact with your hand or something else you touch? Are we that contagous? Seriously! I'm just trying to be nice. But noooooo. Bah!
I have'nt had that specifically, but I've had several times where I was put aside while everyone else was helping with doing something like setting up/taking down things. It feels crappy to just be sitting there and having nothing to do or feeling like "why am I even here in the first place". There was one time when that happened, and apparently the people I was with said it did actually help out (because i was left with the stuff they had brought while they were setting up and later taking down some chairs), but my staying with the stuff gave a chance for all of the few people setting up/taking down to work without one of them having to be there to watch their stuff. So although I felt like I regretted being there at first, I felt better when finding out that my being there actually did make a difference. But in other times, I don't think things were like that, or at least I wouldn't know because I would just be put aside with really no explanation, so to me, those times I just felt like I was put aside to be out of everyone else's way.
I understand you completely. I've felt like that countless times. It's like we're stupid or something. Sheesh. I admit I've knocked a couple things over sometimes, but overall I'm pretty decent at most things, especially when I know the area. I think it's just an easy way out for them.
Yeah, I think that too. I think it has to do with them assuming what a blind person can and can't do. I mean, some people are even amazed that we can get out and do things like go to school never mind just walking around a place, so they just don't know how we can help with whatever they're doing.
In your first post, Remy, are you saying that you've had sighted people be guests in your own home, and they've refused you getting them something to eat or drink, but then gotten it themselves? I am glad to say I've never had a sighted person be that rude in my own house, but I know what you're driving at. Often I too have gotten pushed aside while sighted people are doing some kind of task that involves moving things around, taking them down or setting them up, cleaning, whatever.
Then there are times when you're out driving with someone, they get lost, and you know where they need to go, but they totally ignore your directions because you're blind. However, a lot of the time, we know the city and/or the route better than they do, because we have to use cardinal directions and such things. One of my exes is a virtual human GPS where it comes to this city. More than once I saw him trying to direct sighted people when they didn't know where they were going, each time he was ignored. Yet, each time he proved to be right, and the directions they were finally given matched up with the ones he would have given them, and he's totally blind.
I've never been in that exact situation, but I also know what you're getting at. a lot of the times, sighted people tend to think we're less competent because we can't see, and it's annoying! There are many times I've been with a group of sighted people who try to push me aside because they think they can get the job done faster (usually when it involved cooking or cleaning).
I haven't really been in that type of situation before, but I completely understand where you're coming from. One time, when I was in our dining hall, there was this lady who was taking our college ID's, and when I came in, she acted like it was an emergency and panicked for someone to help me out on getting my food. I was so irritated when I heard all of that.
Hey, if a sighted person refuses your help, they only have themselves to blame for the prolonged completion of the task at hand. Their loss. lol
Becky
That's very interesting Celest. I can't say I've been in that particular situation, but then I'm really not too great with directions unless I know exactly where I am and whereI'm going. Seems many of us have had interesting experiences though.
Sorry, thatlast post was meant for Sisterdawn. Started out using the real name, realized some people don't like that, and switched to the username. Unfortunately Celest was the last user on my mind as I just spoke to her. Sorry about that.
I know what you mean. People can be very annoying like that, especially wen it comes to cooking and things.
Definately. I had a friend who made a kind of potatoe loaf, and his friends and family wouldn't touch it because of the way it looked. In truth it was wonderful stuff. people are just way too judgemental
i was in a recording lecture where four track tape recorders and mixers had to be used. now i was very good at using them, and some sighted personages were not. so i offered my services. as i wasn't, in the in crowd, i was refused, wereas one in the in crowd was taken up on the offer. he openly admitted he knew little, whereas my knowledge in the operation of such equipment was well known. i think it was to do with my blindness that i was refused, you could hear the instant quick nervous chattering start up, that kind of thing. pissed me off no end though. i would have been there for five minutes maximum teaching these people, and that was it, but they still didn't want my assistance. so i walked out of the lecture, and enjoyed a cup of coffee, imagining the students getting into a pickle about how this or that worked, for i knew the guy who'd volunteered his services knew jack shit about anything. he was sighted, and that's all the qualifications he needed.
Well i am partially sighted someone did that to me before and it makes me think that just becuz you have some or none of yur sight they think you don't know what you're doing.
I've had the being set asside while others work, adn that frustrated me, too.
I think some sighted people can't imagine how they would cope if they were to go blind, and operate from that princepel of fear.
been there done that. was in church once, and got pushed aside while people were setting stuff up, was supposed to help watch children, and again was pushed aside, so I know what you guys are talking about.
I had a nextdoor neighbor like that not too long ago. THe funny thing was that she was inconsistent. God forbid I should reach for the stove or even the microwave while she was around, because if given half a chance she would probably have pushed me aside. And yet when it came to travelling places, even places I'd never been, she seemed to expect me to automatically and instantly know where, say, the entry doors to that store were. I remember once I made the slight mistake of accompanying her to Low's (SP?) which is sort of a HOme Depot rival that we at least have here in Idaho and maybe other states as well. Well I don't make a habit of visiting those places since I'm not in a position where I need that knowledge or the materials and such. So when I got out of the car I had no clue where to go. Well Gerilyn eventually got the message and got me headed in the right direction, but the next time she saw my mom she told her I wasn't very good with my cane since I didn't magically know where the doors were. WHen my mom repeated the remark to my O&M instructor at the time (this was during my second semester at the college here), I thought the lady was going to pee her pants from laughing. Her reaction was basically to wonder what Geri had to judge on since I was the only blind person she'd ever had any personal contact with.
I love your story, smokey. That's a very good example of what I mean. (and to the rest of you, you all have good ones too.) SMokey yours really struck me I think because of the tiny vengeful bit within myself. Sounds like they hopefully got what they deserve! Bwahahahah!.
Guardian
Guardian, I've been using your real name on the boards, because it is in your profile that is visible to the public, so I hope that is okay. I'm sorry if it wasn't. And, as a CL, pretty much everyone knows my first name is Alicia, so it's okay to use it. *Smile*
No it's fine (and preferred) by me. But I know some people get wierd when you use their human name, so it's always good to be sure.
everyone knows my name too, but as there are sevearl martins here, i think smokey bear or just smokey is ok, kinda deferentiates one martin from another. going ontopic again. i don't think we'll ever break the barrier between sighted persons and blind, for it is the human condition to fear blindness. and popular culture reinforces this imho.
Smokey, I agree totally with your last post. As long as society believes there a direct relationship between vision and inteligence, (The more sight you have, the smarter and more useful you are), this will continue.
Lou
Unbilladamandsteveable!
If somebody doesn't want your help, what ever the reason, just don't help them. It's not worth getting worked up over. The advantage is that there's less for you to do.
amen to the last poster. I'd rather help those who welcome my assistance, not those who don't.
But if it were in her own home...Then the person was being very rude to her, and there is no excuse for rudeness...
yes, that I agree with.
Yes it is the human condition, and it is also their condition to fear anything. We are a species raised on fear.
I use to offer my help sometimes to my dad and brother. when I would go to visit one or the other. My dad's responce was you can help by staying out of the way. That pissed me right off. My brother on the other hand let's me help. Like this 4th of July I went up to my brother's house for a pig roast. And he let me help turn the pig. it was great!
Why is it rude to say that you don't want any help while you're at home? If somebody asks me if I want help, it is a question. I'm not being ordered to say yes or no, I have the options of agreeing to be helped or saying I don't want any help. I'm not being rude if while in my home or somewhere else, I say I don't want any help.
I think you're missing the point, Senior. Say a sighted person visits your home, you offer to get them something to eat or drink, and they refuse. Yet, minutes later, they go get it themselves. I think that's what the others are driving at.
And yes, I too, would rather help those who welcome it, but it is annoying when people refuse our help simply on the basis that we are blind, and would therefore be in the way. Preferring to help those who welcome it still does not assuage that annoyance, at least for me.
Smoky is right, popular culture continues to reinforce society's misconceptions and fears about blindness, and will probably continue to do so. All we can do is attempt to reverse that damage.
Some sighted people definitely seem to have strange views of blind people. One of my sighted friends honestly thought a blind person wouldn't be employed unless it was on a job that was like working on a computer all the time or something! I thought that was kind of strange. Mind you, she hadn't had much contact with visually impaired people before that. Hahaha.
Well, I think its just so amazing that these sighted people do so well, considering how much electricity they waste. I met this amazing sighted person yesterday. He had to work really hard to learn to drive a car. Ya know, when that car broke down, it was just so inspirational to watch him take the bus. Just amazing!
Lou
lmao Lou; right on!! wonder how they'd take that to their face? lol
It's always funny when I try and hold a door open for someone and they always say "no ... go ahead," or even "Here, let me get the door for you."
I mean, I was holding the damn thing open for you in an effort to be nice. Often people will act surprised, as If the traditional role has been reversed and they're kind of uncomfortable with it.
Oh yes, that's happened to me dozens of times. People are really odd that way. I think as you said they're just surprised. Ironically my wife is the one who notices people's behavior towards me more than I do though. It really really pisses her off when people treat me like a child, or when they look at her as if to say "well he's yours, why aren't you doing this for him."
Have you also noticed that there's a disturbing number of sighted people who think it's inappropriate if not down right wrong for a blind person to have a sense of humor, particularly about blindness? I make jokes about my blindness all the time and I've had several girls get worried that I had low self-esteem. As for pop culture, I know that that foreign film Blindness set a lot of people's teeth on edge because it not only portrayed us as helpless but selfish as well. The one blind person who knew how to do things didn't share his knowledge with others.
First of all, I agree with most of what has already been said.
I can't directly relate to most of those situations, but I understand. My prime example would be labs in science class. The other students never let me help, even with the stuff I might be better at than them. Doing things by touch is something that a totally blind person is generally more adept at than a sighted person, yet they think I'm helpless.
That view gradually gets better after long association with a person, but it shouldn't take that.
Being the vengeful person I am, I would force my help on someone even if they didn't want it. just to prove a point.
What irritates me even more, though, than that is the sighted people who force there help on you. In that case, I refuse to move until they get the point and leave me alone. I don't mind help, if you have the decency to ask if I need it. rather than just assuming.
And everything they refuse our help in is probably something we are much better at than them.
It'll only be when we are all plunged into sudden and complete darkness, that the sighted people beg forgiveness.
You assume of course that that'll happen even then. I've definitely had experience with the sighted person trying to force their help on you.
Sighted people do become incredibly dependent on us when they are plunged into darkness. I saw that many times while growing up, when power outages would occur. In our own home, my sisters would want me to accompany them everywhere, because they got disoriented in the dark. Heck, one time an outage occurred in my high school, and I was helping the school administrators find various things in the building, because they had asked me to. It was quite amusing to me.
Blind Guardian, I frequently have the same problem. My wife used to be way more outp
spoken than I am about such things, and it used to get embarrassing at times. Within the last year, we were somewhere, and I was getting into the car, and this irate person screamed at my wife "And Why aren't you helping your husband into the car." I was glad she didn't hear that, but I just replied calmly, "Because she doesn't think I need it, and you have a nice day." I got into the car, and didn't tell my wife till a few minutes later. Hmmm. I wonder if there's a disease called parking lot rage?
Lou
It'll be interesting to see how much flack my fiance gets out in public. LOL.
If sighted people would rather do something themselves instead of accepting your help, just let them. There are also blind people who refuse help from sighted people so they can be seen to be independent.
Parking Lot rage...I love it.
i'm basically a lazy slob. so if someone doesn't want me to help and I've offered, then fine. i'll get a cup of coffee and relax.
on a similar but different branch of this topic, we have a member at our church who lost her sight a couple years ago. She asked someone in the congregation to do her laundry,because she was blind and she couldn't do it. the person got sucked in. they have several kids of their own and were doing this woman's stuff for free. I was asked by this washer woman who did ours? I said that of course I did my husbands and mine. when my kids turned ten after the birthday bashorama they got a laundry lesson. i haven't decided how to handle this blind lady.
on another thread of this topic, I have found that many blind men are listened too more then I as a blind woman am. Years ago, I worked on a conference planning committee with another guy who was blind. I would make suggestions, which were ignored. He'd say exactly the same thing and was treated like albert einstein. So, in the good of the process, I'd whisper to him, he's speak, and things would get accomplished.
Don't bother handling the blind lady. Clearly she feels unable to do her washing. Just because some blind people can wash their own clothes, that doesn't mean all blind people can.
Is this yet another example of a blind person thinking I can do it so you must be able to do it too?
There is absolutely no reason that, with the propper training, a blind person cannot wash their own clothes. OK, let's rephrase. It could be different if say the blind person also had a mental disability, or perhaps some other physical impairment. But I don't see how blindness alone prevents anyone from washing their own clothes, once they are taught how to do so. Based on Turricane's description, I'd say the only thing stopping this woman from doing so herself is her own belief that she can't, and the lack of being shown that she can. Turricane, I'm not sure how you should handle that either, but I am very glad you let that family's washerwoman know that blind people are in fact capable of doing their own laundry.
The woman may not know about training opportunities for blind people. She may be unaware of the services in her area. She may not know how to find out about the services that are available to her.
I don't mean to put pity on this woman, but it is a little more difficult for people who have just recently lost their sight. Now, it doesn't mean you shouldn't try to adapt, and you definitely should, but be a little easier on them, at least for a little while, or at least, suggest training and maybe help the person get in touch with someone in that area, and do it in more of a gentle and encouraging way.
Ah. The ever popular power outage incident. In my eleventh grade class a couple years ago, my help was constantly being refused. Of course, I was the only totally blind student in all of the public school I was going to, but so many people saw me every day walking from class to class on my own, and they still refused my help. When the power went out, all of a sudden, they were begging for my help. I considered refusing to give it to them on the basis that they would never accept my help before, but then my better half kicked in, and I helped. As soon as the lights went back on, I was in the background again, like somehow I had lost my ability to help when they regained their ability to see their surroundings. It's pretty amazing what some people think. I understand that many people have no experience, but why not get some, if the opportunity is right in front of you.
To their credit, not all sighted people are this way, and I have had some who have not only accepted my help, but have thanked me for it, and asked me to help them again in the future. That always makes me feel better.
The thing that makes me the most angry is when you make plans to help someone, like babysitting for instance, or doing some sort of work for them. At the time, they accept it, and thank you, and then all of a sudden, when the day in question arises, they've found someone else, and they don't notify you what happened to cause them to ask someone else who is sighted. Generally, if that kind of thing happens, I am very hesitant about offering to help that person in the future.
Holly, I think you've probably done all you can do in terms of the lady in your church and the laundry. She may be intimidated by you, right or wrong, because you may appear to be more confident than she does. The fact that someone else in your Church who knows this woman is aware of how you accomplish the same task may be all you can do for now. The danger in you approaching her as a relative stranger is that you might scare her away, depending on her own self-esteem, other disabilities, and secondary gains from having someone else do her laundry. It might, for example, be a social outlet for her that she isn't willing to give up or change. Just my two cents.
Lou
thanks all of you for the thoughts. I keep my mouth shut around her. she is aware of programs and has had some help, but in a lot of ways I still think she lives in a condo in egypt by denial.
Unless you attended those programmes with her, you cannot know how effective they were, how well she responded to the teaching methods, or be aware of any variations in her confidence when staff where watching her, and when she was on her own.
Some visually impaired people aren't and may never be as capable of doing certain tasks such as washing clothes as other visually impaired people.
It is unfair and inconsiderate to expect all visually impaired people to be equally independent in the home.
you win. i'm a bitch. thanks so much.
Actually, I think it is inconsiderate of blind people who are capable of being independent not to be so. Why, because it gives a bad empression of blind people. The laundry issue is a minor example in the long run, but what it reminds me of is that video that went around a few years ago about blind parents in the U.K. They were allowed to get away with making their children do everything for them; when it appeared to me from the video that they were perfectly capable of taking care of their children. It makes the blind person's struggle to survive in a sight dominated society twice as difficult, and that's pretty bad when people just like yourself stab you in the back instead of the people who have the misconceptions.
A bad impression of blind people? Sighted people don't care about how independent every blind person is? It's just an obsession among blind people. The same could be said for blind verses sighted. I don't know any sighted people who feel they are in a contest or rivalry against blind people. It's all in the minds of some blind people.
As for that video about blind parents which I have never watched, no sighted person has ever mentioned it to me. I think they're more interested in X Factor, football, the soaps, etc than how independent blind people are.
I didn't know blind people were struggling to survive. You make blind people sound like an endangered species. I'm certainly not struggling to survive, and I haven't met any blind people who are.
When I first lost my vision, I was really concerned about giving a bad impression of blind people and making us look bad as a group. Then I realized that it doesn't matter how awesomely independent I am because sighted people who aren't familiar with blindness are automatically going to believe we are all helpless simpletons regardless of what any of us do. It's an unfortunate stereotype that has existed forever and it will always exist to some degree. All any of us can do is our best . If I am fortunate enough to make a sighty realize that not all blindys fit the stereotype, then great. But it is an uphill battle and there are people out there who will never get it (like the guy who felt the need to explain to me that I was outside after I went out the door of my office building yesterday.)
We don't all have the same skills, confidence or ability to adapt and it is unfairfor us to be critical of each others' skills. But Turricane, I do not think you are a bitch for being irritated by this woman at your church. I totally understand your frustration with the laundry lady and I feel it too. Perhaps she has a family member who is over protective or maybe she has always been helpless by nature. There are plenty of sighted people out there who are just weak and helpless and need to have someone take care of them. I know plenty of people like that and it drives me batty. I hope that at some point, the lady will realize she can do her own laundry and will attain the skills to be more independent but if not, it is what it is. Maybe she will figure out that independence is possible because of observing you go on about your business independently. She is not a reflection of you or any other blindy. We represent ourselves as individuals and nothing more.
Sighted people who aren't familiar with blind people won't all believe the same thing. Some will believe we need help and may kindly offer help. I'd rather be offered help when I don't need it, than not be offered help when I do need it.
People who offer to help do so out of kindness. If I don't require their assistance, I can say "no thanks". It's not an issue.
Now on a discussion on sighted people not accepting the help of visually impaired people, we have visually impaired people complaining about sighted people helping them when they don't want to be helped. Is the conclusion that it is okay for visually impaired people to reject the help of sighted people, but it is not okay for sighted people to reject the help of visually impaired people?
No, but I do find it a bit rude when sighted people reject our help only on the grounds that we are visually impaired.
But, how can you know if they are refusing to accept it because of that, or if they honestly don't need it? That's an arguement that could go on awhile.
I think a lot of the issues with refusing help or being pushed aside depends on the situation. I think there is no harm in offering help,or refusing it, as long as it is done graciously.
I'm not a fan of hearing how 'amazing', I am, either, and I tend to just tell people I just live and am used to being blind, that usually keeps them quiet, lol.
Have you ever had the ones that don't notice you really when you've got a cane, and as soon as you acquire a dog, people all transform in attitude. It's odd.
Just another point to add, the debate as to whether the sighted person is refusing the help out of a lack of need, or because you're blind depends on what happens next, I guess, whether they then go and complete that task, instead, for instance.
One of the plusses, I believe, of using a dog guide is that it has the potential to a bridge between people. The dog becomes a topic of conversation, and is within many people's comfort zones to talk about. Anyone here ever been asked how old your cane was or how cute your cane is? *smile*.
Lou
i've been rejected for a job at a stable because i was blind, the farrier wanted someone to hold a horse, now i've done that several times, and skittish horses too. but when there was noone about, he called out, and i responded, but he rejected my help, saying he was going to get a member of staff. hmm, i volunteer there, and he knows that. his voice gave him away, he was shit scared of the situation.
Well, some people just don't like accepting help from anybody, regardless of whether you're blind or sighted, but sometimes, when a sighted person refuses your help, and then goes right back and asks for the same help from a sighted person, then it's a little obvious...
Yeah, I've had that problem too. Like if we're doing a science experiment or something in a group, I tell them I want to help but they always say no they'll do it. It really fucking sucks! They act like we're stupid, just because we're blind, and it fucking pisses me off!!
Ha, Loo, very clever, indeed. *smile*. It is a great ice-breaker. I often find myself answering the same questions, though. How long have you had her for? How old is she? How long does it take to train them? We can't pat her when she's in the harnis can we? *smile*, I'll have to start thinking of scripted answers soon.
They probably don’t want to trouble us. I just am a bit offended not because of the blind or not blind thing, but it’s more like, fine… then… forget you then, more like all the other sighted people’s kind of bitter.
The actually shoving aside only really happened once. It was out right discrimination, or at least I think. This special education teacher didn’t like blind people, and I was helping out a blind student in there, and she through me out when she had the opportunity, and I also heard that she didn’t want the blind student in her class either.
However, these days, too many people want my help all of them sighted (you have no idea how stressful it is) I just want to throw things at the wall and roar and pull my hair out, only, I know that won’t help.
Luckily, one of these people I am helping is actually paying me, so (grins)
Exactly senior
That reminds me of a story I heard from a vision teacher I had in High School. Now why some folks in the US call them vision teachers is something of a mystery since they're not actually teaching us vision LOL. Actually I think the other term is Itinarate teacher. Anyway, a lot of these types of people have several clients to work with in different places. Well Kathy had one student who was partially sighted and therefore needed large print instead of braille or cassette. Well this particular student had one regular teacher who absolutely refused to allow Kathy to blow up the assignments because she "didn't want the student to have an advantage over the others."
And that would be not legal.
Not only would that not be legal, but the rest of the class would have an advantige over the single student.
very true
I try to offer people things...trying to be a good host and yes, they refuse and get things themselves.